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hamradio

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PostSubject: Boss Battle Discussion   Tue Apr 06, 2010 11:20 pm

Ok I figured it would be a good idea to move this discussion to one place.

So currently our options as far as I know are:

1. Keep level layout and flow identical to original and replace bowser with hammer or fire brother

Pros
- We can use a switch to trigger bridge collapse and toads chest to trigger standard exit
- Retains original level design and flow.
- It may be possible to replace fire brother texture with a bowser one. Making the level aesthetically identical to the original.

Cons
- Much easier than original bowser battles.
- Brother can be killed by jumping on head or with one fireball

1a. Keep level layout and flow identical to original and replace bowser with sledge brother



2. Add in midway point and boss door to original NSMBW boss battles.

Pros
- More difficult and exciting than just facing fire brother

Cons
- NSMBW boss battles dont fit the original stages very well at all.
- Since we have to exactly duplicate Nintendos boss area it may constitute copyright violation (????)


Obviously at this point both options are a compromise. We still need to look into any other potential possibilities so if you have any ideas please post them.


Last edited by hamradio on Sat Apr 10, 2010 12:46 am; edited 2 times in total
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sk8erbilly



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PostSubject: Re: Boss Battle Discussion   Tue Apr 06, 2010 11:41 pm

Maybe put a ledge above the fire/hammer bro then he could jump and it would make it much harder.
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z_AML_z

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PostSubject: Re: Boss Battle Discussion   Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:26 am

hamradio wrote:
Ok I figured it would be a good idea to move this discussion to one place.

So currently our options as far as I know are:

1. Keep level layout and flow identical to original and replace bowser with hammer or fire brother

Pros
- We can use a switch to trigger bridge collapse and toads chest to trigger standard exit
- Retains original level design and flow.
- It may be possible to replace fire brother texture with a bowser one. Making the level aesthetically identical to the original.

Cons
- Much easier than original bowser battles.
- Brother can be killed by jumping on head or with one fireball


2. Add in midway point and boss door to original NSMBW boss battles.

Pros
- More difficult and exciting than just facing fire brother

Cons
- NSMBW boss battles dont fit the original stages very well at all.
- Since we have to exactly duplicate Nintendos boss area it may constitute copyright violation (????)


Obviously at this point both options are a compromise. We still need to look into any other potential possibilities so if you have any ideas please post them.

I call option 2 Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Boss Battle Discussion   Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:50 am

We can either work around the Hammer Bros 1-hit KO problem or use an ASM hack to make them invulnerable.
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aXe



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PostSubject: Re: Boss Battle Discussion   Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:55 am

Why make them invulnerable? If you spit a few fireballs at the Bowsers in the original, they turn into a gray Goomba (AKA die) and fall off the bridge.
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hamradio

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PostSubject: Re: Boss Battle Discussion   Wed Apr 07, 2010 2:00 am

If we can hack it to make the fire/hammer brother take more damage and not able to be killed by jumping on him that would be perfect especially combined with a texture swap.
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aXe



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PostSubject: Re: Boss Battle Discussion   Wed Apr 07, 2010 8:22 pm

Well if we have a choice, my vote goes to trying to make them stronger and un-jump-on-able.
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z_AML_z

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PostSubject: Re: Boss Battle Discussion   Wed Apr 07, 2010 8:25 pm

I'm going with the larry koopa idea...
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nikeymikey

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PostSubject: Re: Boss Battle Discussion   Thu Apr 08, 2010 6:43 am

I like the 1st idea stay as true to the original as we can, there must be some way to make the hammer bro harder to beat.

But even in the original if u were running fast enough you could just jump over bowser and hit the switch in one move from running straight into the end of level area, so they were not that hard to beat anyway.
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hamradio

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PostSubject: Re: Boss Battle Discussion   Sat Apr 10, 2010 12:14 am

Hey I had a look at the models for the hammer brother. Predictably all the brothers (hammer, fire, ice and boomerang) share the same mesh just with different textures. Which would make it impossible to edit the fire brother without changing them all. So another possibility is to use the sledge brother model (bros_mega.arc). Which has closer proportions to bowser. I tried a quick texture swap on the sledge brother this is how it looks. I think it would be a better alternative to the fire/hammer brother. If we could tweak the mesh a bit and give it some spikes on the shell, and the comb of hair, and the leather straps I think it could look really good.

Before


After
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Assassination

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PostSubject: Re: Boss Battle Discussion   Sat Apr 10, 2010 12:27 am

cool
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thchang



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PostSubject: Re: Boss Battle Discussion   Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:01 pm

i vote for option 1
but the problem is, i have problem with random crash on every world stage 4
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VampireLordAlucard
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PostSubject: Re: Boss Battle Discussion   Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:50 pm

I thought our goal was to recreate the original game with as much authenticity as possible, not to ramp up the difficulty. I'm definitely no to using NSMBW bosses.

I say that we go with using the fire brother for our Bowser replacement. We can reskin the fire bros to look like Bowser, and still keep the hammer bros looking normal. The downside is that editing his model and stats will modify the hammer bros as well, but by the time we figure out how to do all that, we'll probably be able to replace another enemy with the fire bros and have two of them, one edited and one not, so it wont matter.

Keeping in mind that our goal is authenticity, I think that even an unedited fire bros gives the most authentic feeling of all the options so far. Maybe use the sledge bros, I don't honestly remember much about him, so I can't really say about how authentic using him would be.

EDIT: I have an idea on someone that could probably make a texture replacement that would look pretty awesome. I just messaged him about it, and I'll post back his response when I get one.
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VampireLordAlucard
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PostSubject: Re: Boss Battle Discussion   Mon Apr 19, 2010 2:38 am

Sorry to double post, but some of you wouldn't have seen an update on the forum unless I made a new post. I messaged Jose Gallardo and asked him if he would be willing to help us do a retexture to make either Fire Bros or Sledge Bros to look like Bowser. He's made some pretty cool stuff. Website is here.

His response:

Quote :
"And yeah, I can try and make a texture for those guys. However, if you have any ideas on what exactly you are looking for, it will make things that much easier.

EX: Make Fire Bro have a Green Nose

Obviously you wouldn't want that (or do you? [cool face was here]) but if you have a sort of blueprint of what you want, do let me know."

So I'd like to know: what are we going with, fire bros or sledge bros? Also, which version of Bowser, NES or SNES? Or should we just leave it up to him, and see how it turns out?
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hamradio

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PostSubject: Re: Boss Battle Discussion   Mon Apr 19, 2010 4:45 am

The sledge bros are basically bigger, tougher hammer brothers that can also jump and slam down. A bit like bowser in SMB3. Also bowser did sometimes throw hammers in SMB.
Without a model swap they do look a bit closer to the proportions of bowser.



Basically yellow/orange skin, off-white mouth, red eyebrows and hair, green face and shell and maybe chest, yellow/white spikes.
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z_AML_z

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PostSubject: Re: Boss Battle Discussion   Mon Apr 19, 2010 5:38 pm

VampireLordAlucard wrote:
Sorry to double post, but some of you wouldn't have seen an update on the forum unless I made a new post. I messaged Jose Gallardo and asked him if he would be willing to help us do a retexture to make either Fire Bros or Sledge Bros to look like Bowser. He's made some pretty cool stuff. Website is here.

His response:

Quote :
"And yeah, I can try and make a texture for those guys. However, if you have any ideas on what exactly you are looking for, it will make things that much easier.

EX: Make Fire Bro have a Green Nose

Obviously you wouldn't want that (or do you? [cool face was here]) but if you have a sort of blueprint of what you want, do let me know."

So I'd like to know: what are we going with, fire bros or sledge bros? Also, which version of Bowser, NES or SNES? Or should we just leave it up to him, and see how it turns out?

Haha sure bro...I know the dude too...Used to be at WAdder
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VampireLordAlucard
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PostSubject: Re: Boss Battle Discussion   Mon Apr 19, 2010 8:48 pm

Cool, sent him a message with your pic and what you said to change. I also told him to just use whichever he thinks he can make look more like Bowser - firebros or Sledge Bros. Or both if he felt like it.

Lastly, I gave him a link to our forums so that he could post his work here Very Happy
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z_AML_z

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PostSubject: Re: Boss Battle Discussion   Mon Apr 19, 2010 9:06 pm

VampireLordAlucard wrote:
Cool, sent him a message with your pic and what you said to change. I also told him to just use whichever he thinks he can make look more like Bowser - firebros or Sledge Bros. Or both if he felt like it.

Lastly, I gave him a link to our forums so that he could post his work here Very Happy

Great Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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